Bartubeless and other options

Had a puncture on the V85 last weekend. Not too far from civilisation so phoned recovery, went to a cafe and waited. And waited, and waited a bit longer for a taxi as the recovery vehicle couldn’t take us both due Covid. 3 1/2 hours after phoning bike and us both back home.

next day, I read the manual and the rear wheel is easy to remove. 5 mins of fiddling with my motion pro bead breakers and bingo off it pops and few mins later the tube is in my hands with a very obvious hole and the nub end of screw is poking through the tyre carcass. New tube fitted and the tyre goes on easy peasy without using levers. Sorted. The old tube now has a patch that is holding but is in reserve as an emergency spare.

But it took an hour plus in total in the garage at home using old mats to protect the rim. But I did use only tools I carried on the bike including a compressor, although I did discover the real need for a 8mm Allen socket rather than a weedy lever and wasn’t carrying a spare tube (but a patch would have worked).

Last puncture I had on tubeless tyres took about 10mins at the side of the road to plug and reinflate and cost about 10p for the plug instead of £15 for a new tube. My conclusion is that tubeless tyres really are less hassle.

options seem to be: new tubeless wheels from Kineo or Alpina. Cost is megabucks - basic kineo wheels over £2k the pair. Err, no.
Bartubeless is a system where you send off wheels to Italy and get a system that seals the spokes (standard wheel rims are Tubeless otherwise). Sent via Central Wheels cost is £300 for both. Takes 3 weeks with 4year guarantee.
Central Wheels do their own sealing system. Cost is £120 per wheel but only 1year guarantee.

DIY: buy some of the right sort of sealant and tape to seal your own wheels. There’s a few that have done it on the V85tt Facebook page and someone’s done a video so I know what to buy and what’s involved. Cost about £50. But success is not 100% with a few people recommending adding a tyre pressure monitoring system (fancy dust caps and a Bluetooth monitor) for reassurance and monitoring. Add another £100 or so. Tbh I reckon I would easily f*** up a diy option so not really considering this, especially as the super sticky silicone is a bigger to remove if it goes wrong.

The grumble aside, has anyone got experience of any of the above or another option. I could just stick with tubes of course and practice my tyre fitting technique.

Austin, PM Ian Porter, i know he’s fitted a tubeless conversion to a triumph scrambler.
Maybe able to help with a few pointers.

Stick with tubes
Our old friend Raymo had plenty practice, I think around 3/4 hr ? to fix on his old AT punctures was about his average, always on hot tyres. Just replaced tubes, 21 inch for both front and back.
Mind you , he wasn't one for protecting rims
Horses for courses I reckon, if you count the number of punctures you have averaged out over the past few years, worth the hassle and extra candy to convert ?

Be interesting to know your conclusions young man

Stick with tubes. I rode to the Yukon and back with no punctures and only had the rear wheel off because the tyre was done. 40 minutes max at the campground. You'll probably never have another puncture.

I've hummed and haahed over the same thing. As much as the puncture repair convenience aspect, my concern is avoiding sudden deflation. However my Transalp rims don't have the inner lip to retain tubeless tyres (Chris Scott has a good explanation of this sealing wire wheels to run tubeless tires – Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 2020 ), and to have them re-rimmed with rims suitable for tubeless tyres and sealed with the Bartubeless system would be of the order of £700. Steep.

I also considered sealing the spokes with one of the DIY methods to slow the rate of deflation, the reasoning being that it appears when a tube is punctured most air escapes through the spokes. 'Appears' being the operative word here: I'm not sure if this is fact or internet wisdom. I'm also not too keen on the idea of reducing the depth of the well, perhaps making tyre changes more difficult.

So at present I'm continuing to carry tools and tubes and patches, while considering options. Be interested to hear what others do/think.

Thanks for the thoughts chaps. I am minded to stay with tubed tyres, and as it’s the do nothing option that’s what’s probably going to happen. Punctures are a pita whenever they happen and fortunately are rare. You are right I might not have another in years. It’s just the hassle factor on a long trip - 10mins to plug and inflate vs 1+hours fighting a stiff tyre in the dirt damaging your rims and getting filthy doing it.

If the bike had rims without the lip thing it would make breaking the bead a lot easier though, I usually find a tyre change fairly straightforward after that but it depends on the tyre a lot. The Pirelli adventure tyres fitted seemed to be quite good in that respect and will last for about 10,000 miles too.

In my head I can’t get round the idea that you can effectively and reliably seal up 40 or so big spoke holes in a wheel rim, as per the Bartubeless solution, and that it will last for the life of the wheel. It’s just not is it.

Besides it’s not always the case that tubeless are an easy fix. In Norway a couple of years ago the rear tyre got a slow puncture. On inspection there were at least 5 little holes a couple too close to each to other to plug, all bubbling away with the rain water on the tyre. The tyre was only half worn but had to be replaced - at Norway prices!. With tubed tyres I would had an immobilising flat but could have patched the tube or replaced it for a tenth of the cost of a new tyre.

dessert storm.... I too am concerned about blowout deflation ( was it wheelie who posted a video from a following car of his bike suffering a blowout). Tyre pressure monitors could be an option but not sure if they react fast enough or give a proper alert (like a very bright flashing warning). Michelin and Garmin do them. Again though blowouts are rare, even rarer than a slow puncture. Putting gunge/sealant stuff in the carcass but not in the tube is just going to leak out the spoke holes and especially out the valve hole and leave your rims a sticky gooey mess. But if you fancy a go I would be interested in how it works. It is an option for in the tube though.

I understand your predicament. All the DIY plugs I've seen are intended as temporary, get-you-home solutions. Are professional plugs also considered temporary for bike tyres, because any part of the tyre can - at times - be right at the edge of the contact area? So you have to buy a new tyre (rather than a new inner tube), and spend time on that.

Let's say you pay £300 or £700 to upgrade the rim, maybe to save an hour now and then. Think of it as someone 'paying' you £300 to wait by the roadside and maybe it doesn't sound so bad!?! If you plan to keep the bike for many years, maybe the maths make more sense, but if you sell it after a year or two, maybe not. Put the correct figures below

Tubeless
Cost £300 plus replacement tyre each puncture £100+.
Time 10 minutes to plug plus time taken to replace tyre (an hour?) plus time to get rims upgraded (a couple of hours removing, sending, replacing)

Tubed
Cost £20
Time 1 hour or so?

Apologies if I've misunderstood!

Dee Dub said:

I understand your predicament. All the DIY plugs I've seen are intended as temporary, get-you-home solutions. Are professional plugs also considered temporary for bike tyres, because any part of the tyre can - at times - be right at the edge of the contact area? So you have to buy a new tyre (rather than a new inner tube), and spend time on that.

Let's say you pay £300 or £700 to upgrade the rim, maybe to save an hour now and then. Think of it as someone 'paying' you £300 to wait by the roadside and maybe it doesn't sound so bad!?! If you plan to keep the bike for many years, maybe the maths make more sense, but if you sell it after a year or two, maybe not. Put the correct figures below

Tubeless
Cost £300 plus replacement tyre each puncture £100+.
Time 10 minutes to plug plus time taken to replace tyre (an hour?) plus time to get rims upgraded (a couple of hours removing, sending, replacing)

Tubed
Cost £20
Time 1 hour or so?

Apologies if I've misunderstood!

Click to expand...

I have fitted four or five plugs to tubeless tyres i think, all went on to last the rest of the life of the tyre. Sure, plugs are recommended as a temporary fix but if a plug is in and isn't leaking then as far as I am concerned its staying. What the worst that can happen? It comes out? OK the hole you plugged is a bit bigger than it was when it was first plugged but its just another puncture (probably quite a quick one this time) that can probably be re-plugged in 10mins.

On getting a puncture in tubed tyres almost anywhere in this country (and probably Europe** come to that) where I have breakdown cover I will just phone them and get us and bike either taken home or to a bike shop for a repair. OK, the day or most of it would be a write-off but rather that than pulling up at the side of the road causing an obstruction for over an hour, wheel out, scrabbling about in the gutter trying to fix it for an hour or more. Whereas on a tubeless tyre a few minutes with a compressor will probably get it back to being rideable to a safe place where it can be quickly plugged re-inflated and we will be on our way. The cost of Bartubeless could to be excellent value in these terms - depends what the impact is on your day (missed Ferry, non-arrival at pre-booked accommodation, missing an event or occasion).

** In Europe or anywhere else in the world I would be on a trip and probably not on any sort of schedule so the lost day would be OK and the puncture and everything else would just become part of the trip. Unless it was really unsafe to fix it where I was I would probably just get on with it.

Tubeless is great if standard. Tubed is fine if standard. Use good quality standard (not HD) tubes from a known brand and maybe change them every 2nd tyre change if you are keen. Make sure they are fitted well. Some people run slime in the tubes. Not sure myself. Had a few low pressure green lane blowouts when I used to run 10psi or under but touch wood with all my ATs I have been lucky so far fingers crossed. Most aftermarket systems like Tubliss etc have issues if you dig deep enough. Its just not worth swapping wheels out unless you are a rich man (and we know you are )