Waiting for recovery.....

Not like the old days of a little engine a carb and chain anymore. Cracking photos though.

Thunderbird 2
 
Another thought. Is the starter solenoid bolted to the starter motor, like on a car, or is it a completely separate unit?

And can it be dismantled to have a gander at the contacts? It is, after all, just a relay on steroids.
 
It's bolted to the starter and looks like it can be removed. I did think about this but in my experience )limited admittedly) solenoids either work or don't. But, I suppose if the contacts inside are not clean or are worn then current may be limited.
 
Last year it took the RAC 3 1/2 hours to get to me after I had a puncture in Stroud (Glos). Phoned them at 8pm, someone will be with you in 45 mins, again after an hours wait, and again and again. Finally arrived from Birmingham and got home after midnight. I was going to use the Transalp for a club run that morning into S Wales & over Gospel Pass, had to take a much less suitable CB750 as I did not have time to sort out the puncture.
I had much better experience with a recovery when I was using EBike insurance. Said they would be there in 45 mins came after 30 mins, did a check could not fix it into the van and home.
 
Philwhiskeydrinker said:
For the trips you do Austin, I think I'd be looking at a new uprated starter & highest output battery available along with decent +/- cables
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I think you are right Phil. A new Motobatt is on its way. Motoworks do recon starters for £180 or an uprated new one for £258. I think for the extra the uprated one looks like the right answer.

Edit.....the uprated one is "Arrowhead" brand. Anyone come across them before?
 
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Have a look on eBay Austin
I got a pattern replacement starter from Germany much cheaper than motor works and it's been spot on (had a recon one on before that and didn't rate it)

I just take it off every now and then to glean it of dust from the clutch

Needs doing again now actually
 
Latest update. Solenoid off the starter and found that the bendix gear was almost seized on the shaft and was in the engaged position. I got some grease into it and with a bit of heave-ho it released and moved very smoothly. However upon reassembly it made no difference. I had thought that would be it and in my excitement just reassembled without checking the contacts inside so I am going to take it all apart again to recheck. What I think has happened is that the bendix gear has remained in contact with the flywheel and spun with the engine, which won't have done it any good at all.
 
austin said:
Latest update. Solenoid off the starter and found that the bendix gear was almost seized on the shaft and was in the engaged position. I got some grease into it and with a bit of heave-ho it released and moved very smoothly. However upon reassembly it made no difference. I had thought that would be it and in my excitement just reassembled without checking the contacts inside so I am going to take it all apart again to recheck. What I think has happened is that the bendix gear has remained in contact with the flywheel and spun with the engine, which won't have done it any good at all.
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That's why I take mine off and clean it every now and then

It can eat the flywheel teeth if left unchecked
 
Hmm, there's a fair few hits on Google* about GS starter motors.


* Other search engines are available.
 
Minor success :). I took the battery to the local Car Care (thats Car Care, High St Garstang Roof Boxes Lancashire | Roof Bars Lake District | Cycle Carriers Cumbria - great guys) who had a tester and confirmed it is OK at 200 amps (Its is rated for 200CCA). So its starter or cables thats the problem. The Car Care chaps then made me two 30" battery cables so after a final strip and clean of the starter and photos for a guy on UKGSer (its a 10minute job now) I tried without the extra cables - no use; and then with them and bingo the bike started. :respect13:

I say Minor success because although the starter turned fast enough to start the engine I would hardly call it turning over at a confidence inspiring speed and I would expect on a hot restart it would struggle.

So its a new starter for me. Bykebitz in Heywood Lancs do the Arrowhead pattern part new for £162 so that's what i am going for. Hopefully in stock and I can pick up Monday morning so should be sorted by early afternoon in time to see my Mum in hospital later on. I am going to retain the extra cables and I reckon I will have the fastest GS starter in the UK. :D

The Motobatt I have ordered, although arguably not needed, does mean it will be a whole lot easier to hook up all the accessory cables i have got on the bike as it as two pairs of poles - one for the main supply & starter, and one for the accessories. I will also have a spare battery for testing stuff - always good.
 
Is this a common fault then ?

Bike turned over more than usual last Sunday, but it had been lying for a couple of weeks.
I'll see what like tomorrow.
How often do you take apart and service Ian ?
 
Lowflyer said:
Is this a common fault then ?

Bike turned over more than usual last Sunday, but it had been lying for a couple of weeks.
I'll see what like tomorrow.
How often do you take apart and service Ian ?
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Typically on mine I start to get a screech from the starter once the bike starts

This is an indicator that the bendix is gummed up with dust from the clutch and not returning freely

I probably get this once every 18 months or so

I just take it off and clean the dust off with brake cleaner and pop it back on

Adding grease or oil just gives the dust something to stick to and you run the risk of it flinging off onto the clutch
 
John, have a browse around UKGSer, there's loads of threads about lazy starters. Fixes vary from replacing battery and or starter, servicing the starter, to running parallel wires to supplement the existing +ve and earth - I am probably going full belt braces and a grippy waistband and replacing the whole bloody lot. Symptoms are normally very slow cranking when the engine is hot, but all is good on a cold start. The cause seems to be a combination of a hot engine having higher internal resistance and that same heat over time causing high resistance in the starter motor windings or the cables. The GS/GSA has had two types of starter: from about 2007/08 that are Bosch, earlier are Valeo and I think they sit behind some sort of plastic cover that can make the problem worse.

Taking the starter off is easy enough, although I believe the earlier Valeo model is slightly larger and wiggling it out is a bit awkward. After that its pretty straightforward to strip down - I use a 7/8ths socket to slide the brushes and their bracket onto otherwise the brushes pop out of their holders and are impossible to put back on - DAMHIK. The gearboxes are usually reported to be dry - Moly grease, but I haven't read many other reports of sticking/stuck bendixes.

good guide here....Sluggish starting? Might not be the battery ...

Until I started on this job it must be 35 years since I stripped a starter so I was re-learning as I went and made a few errors along the way - like not checking the bendix properly for first time.
 
Still not sorted.:(

Motobatt battery arrived today. 1st prod and the bike started :thumbsupanim:. Switch off, try again and its very sluggish and a non-starter. :( Motobatt still showing 12.7 volts, so now convinced its the starter and as I have stripped, cleaned and reassembled about 4 times its clearly broken beyond my capabilities now. Two eBay sellers do the Arrowhead starter but neither have any actually in stock. So started ringing around including a local autoelectrical firm who are very helpful and say what I have got could be refurb'd but cant say how much or how long it would take until they get into it and understand the components and if its not standard stuff from the car world it could be 1-2 weeks while they source the parts. But they could get me a pattern part which turned out to be an Arrowhead for a little bit more than the eBay sellers, and it would be delivered next day. So, hopefully that will turn up bright and early and I get it fitted and relax again.

On the Motobatt, after hearing only good things about them I am more than a little disappointed initially. I ordered the model recommended on the Motobatt website (MBTX9U), but compared to the Yuasa I took off its physically smaller so a bad fit in the battery box which makes getting the cables on difficult, especially as I am fitting extra HD cables to wire the starter direct to the battery. And, although it has two pairs of terminals it only comes with 1 pair of posts which kinda defeats the point of the extra terminals. I spent ages rooting around my box of old/spare bolts looking for something that would fit in the extra two terminals so I could wire in my auxiliary power stuff. Done now anyway and fortunately the bikes battery strap has some flexibility so it still holds it down. Finally, the spec of the battery seems to be down the Yuasa equivalent: the Motobatt is 10.5Ah and 160CCA. The Yuasa was a YTZ14S was 11.5Ah and 200CCA. I understand the Motobatt has some different tech going on and I understand somehow or other gives more "oomph" but I will forever have my doubts.
 
Many thanks Ian and Austin , great advice given there :thumbsup:

As it turned out, bike started first time, must have been lack of use previously.
Good to hear your views on the Motobatt Austin. Must admit it was to be my first choice if the old battery did pack up, now ,not so sure:confused:
Hope you get sorted soon Austin --- I'm just off to the garage to rip the starter out :D
 
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